Christmas Charity
An interesting little video, I think you'll agree. I particularly liked the rat, Tony Blair leaving the sinking ship of Our Country. Scuttling off to prepare for President of Eurabia. Well wherever he goes we will fetch him back one day to stand trial for his crimes.
Now Christmas. The British People are renowned for their charity to others less fortunate than themselves. But sometimes this charity to overseas causes, does more harm then good and in the worst cases, the money donated does not reach the people who need it but is stolen by the leaders of corrupt countries to oppress their peoples even further.
So I would like to suggest a couple of options to those readers who are fortunate enough to be able to donate to just causes.
First, if you really want to make a difference to animal welfare, child poverty, ex-servicemen and our elderly and similar causes in Our Country then you should donate to the British National Party. OK, so it is a political party but so what. They are the only political party which has genuine compassionate policies to all of the above. They will make a change for the less fortunate in our land who have suffered long enough under the rotating dictatorships of Labour and Conservative governments.
But if that idea does not appeal to you then what about making your charitable donations to The Barnabus Fund, their charity supports Christians the world over. And if you know what is happening to Christians who dare to practise their faith, our faith, in countries where the curse of Islam has taken control, then you know they need our help.
Now another idea that would solve your Christmas Gift problems. Check out the BNP, Excalibur Online Gift Shop. Loads of items for all the familly and you will also be helping in the fight for Our Country.
And one last thing. Let us remember the real meaning of Christmas when we send out Our Cards. Let our cards reflect the true meaning of Christmas. You might have to hunt for these sort of cards. They are harder to find every year in a country whose culture and religion is slowly being strangled by the Marxist monsters who control us.
44 comments:
Or donate to CROP to do something about these paedophiles.
From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7092401.stm
"The scale of the problem of British girls being lured into prostitution in their own country is being examined by the Home Office.
A working group is being set up to examine "internal trafficking" of girls in their teens or younger.
In some cases, girls as young as 10 are believed to have been groomed by youths pretending to be boyfriends. They are passed on and end up in prostitution....
Hilary Willmer, from the Coalition for the Removal of Pimping (Crop), said she had seen dozens of cases of internal trafficking.
Ms Willmer said: "It can happen to any child from any family. The men, the gangs have all the experience. The children, the families and the parents are bewildered, don't know what's happening."
There's no mention of the identities of these gangs, but on previous form my guess is that they're Methodists.
I e-mailed the BBC today programme this morning.
They know damned well who these men are and from which cult.
For the past few days all we've heard was two muslim peers went to the Sudan.
When the news is negative about islam suddenly the BBC refuse to link them to a trade we all know is carried out by muslim men.
I know this comes from the EU where journalists are given instructions regarding the reporting of muslims.
Positives to be played up negatives played down.
As i told the beeb. fine take EU orders but not while it's we the British public that fork out £3 billion a year for this marxist organisation.
And why after years of this children prostitution trade is it still going on?
This is not new just ignored by the powers that be all for the sake of votes.
Anyone that believes the government and media figures that only 2 million muslims live in the UK need their bumps feeling.
All three parties fighting over just the adult votes from the 2 million made up of kids also. is just too laughable to contemplate.
In 2005 Dr Sookhdeo of the Barnabas fund actually stated that the 2/3 million quoted was a gross underestimate.
Lets face it, he should know his job is the study of islam and christianity at the institute of the same name here in the UK.
When trying to find out the actual numbers the great big brick wall goes up and the usual 1.7 million is repeated. like France it's been 6 million for about 6 years...as if.
Ashley Mote MEP. told me over a year ago he thought that 50 million in Europe was his thought on it.he recommended asking the MCB i already had they came up with 13 million to which my reply was AND THE REST!
When something is kept so secretive then it points to a huge cover up of the facts.
WHY?
Yorkielass.
So glad you phoned the BBC. I emailed them on the same topic. Here's a copy of what I said:
"" Sir
"We have changed Emma's name to protect her identity."
Also protecting the identity of the perpertrators eh? Everyone - and I mean everyone - knows who's doing the vast majority of this stuff. The BBC just brings contempt onto itself.
Aren't the M or P words in your dictionary?
Morgan ""
Oh ... and here's a good and spot on read. It's ostensibly an open letter to the American people, but it word for word applies here and in the rest of the West too:
http://tinyurl.com/yw6k8z
Which I picked up from the Dutch (in English) blog Klein Verzet. If you go there and read the second post, you'll discover that like the British, the Dutch are also slowly waking up (you may have to read a couple of earlier posts to fully understand the story. KV is a good blog and I recommend regular visits.
http://kleinverzet.blogspot.com/
"First, if you really want to make a difference to animal welfare, child poverty, ex-servicemen and our elderly and similar causes in Our Country then you should donate to the British National Party. OK, so it is a political party but so what." (GA: 2007)
Precisely,....so what?! GA: What would the BNP do with the monies that is of any benefit or positive consequence for these groups? You lot would probably use the money to equip all houses in the UK with live firearms to "get ready" when the BNP get into Government! Commenters - if you actually do want to make a difference to the aforementioned groups, donate to the charities directly!
The "No Good Troll" song (to the tune of 'Jingle Bells')
Dashing through the posts; laughing all the way.
Making people pissed; running from their flames.
Pulling all their strings; giving them a fit.
Calling them a name or two, 'cause I don't give a shit! ...(hey,)
Chorus:
N G Troll; N G Troll; bloggin' all the way.
Oh, what fun it is to be a no good troll today.
Spamming through the threads; typing all the way.
Telling people off; screwing up their day.
E-mail in my box; nothing good to say.
All the posters wish me dead...but I ain't dead today! ...(hey,)
Chorus: (same)
Losers on the net; waiting for a fight.
I can't win a one; 'cause I'm never "right".
Everything I say...comes back with some sass.
Even if I shut my mouth...to them I'd be an ass!
..(hey,)
Chorus: (same)
"Boobs" and insults reign; jokes and humor rule.
Why I waste my time?; that's a good one too.
If I had a life; if you want the truth...
Then I'd be a jackass and be boring just like you! ...(hey,)
Chorus: (same/2 times)
N G Troll; N G Troll; bloggin' all the way.
Oh, what fun it is to be a no good troll today.
###
note: Remember...the only *good* thing about a fart is when it's *out* and *gone*!!
Excellent performance BFB. I take it that you dont have anything to say about donating to the BNP then? Louise.
Yes thanks John. There's not too much distance betwen us - in fact, I pass near you every time I go visit family. I'm sure we'll bump into each other one of these days.
While I'm here - picked this up from a comment on Dhimmi Watch: does anyone suppose it's any different here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXlPfpDykFo
FATWA FOR THE BEHEADING OF THE APOSTATE TEDDY BEAR FORMERLY KNOWN AS MOHAMMED
A reward of 100 billion Sudanese dinars (or five US dollars, which ever is the greater at the current exchange rate ) will be offered for the beheading of this vile creature which has escaped Islamic justice.
Upon being found guilty of defiling the name of Mohammed, by the crime of being called Mohammed, and sentenced to 400 lashes , the bear replied that he never wanted to be known as 'Mohammed' in the first place but preferred to be called 'Christopher'. The sentence was immediately increased to death for apostasy and insulting Islam.
Unfortunately the will of Allah was thwarted before the sentence could be carried out when the bear escaped, as a result of a raid by the combined forces of Mossad and the SAS (may Allah curse and damn these pigs and monkeys and then really lose his temper and bladder control and scream and roll around on the floor in a full scale tantrum and spreading pool of pee ).
The bear has since appeared in England as a British National Party mascot and has converted to Anglicanism.
Shaheeds - you know what Allah expects! Decapitate the apostate bear! And just think what you could buy with 100 billion Sudanese dinars - a camel, two goats, four wives - or best of all a really sexy little catamite!
Allah Akhbar!!!
Lets not go getting all heated up Sir Hm (as if). I was working away for a few days and couldn't take my laptop with me. Perhaps you should stick with your golden rivett and your back slapping chum(p)s. Besides, I thought you judgemental old men would consider it inappropriate and hypocrisy to engage in sexually suggestive ways with young women?! To example my point, I probably need not refer you to your exagerated psuedo-christian panics about ancient muslim profits and their preferences for the younger form eh? Said BNP panics are littered all over GA's site in the November postings. But yes, I'm back. Lets see if you can increase the level of engagement and raise the bar a little in terms of argumentation and debate about your damaging policies. Whilst it serves as fodder for amusement, I note that BFB has already failed miserably to do so - though I cant knock his efforts and they definately take his time up more usefully than his usual racist rantings so thats productive at least (and a welcome relief for our muslim friends too). Sleep well now Sir Hm.
BFB: I understand that entirely. I expect it is an extremely rare and thoroughly unpleasant event when you do! However, to address the point, when GA posts something that at least makes sense to the cause (eg IS something to do with the BNP or the central aim of the website), there will be a response.
Anonymous 10:25 - You will find that I am against the antics of the UAF postings with matched passion to my dislike of the antics that you folks use to hype issues and scare yourselves silly on this website too. It is a shame that you did not see the issues I raised about the UAF on my other postings whilst you were busily judging them.
Its you lot who keep raising the issue of the UAF in some way or another, on most days of the week. You need to address your dislike of them more productively. For example, why dont you expose them in public debate or forums (you appear to have grounds from some of the chat they hold about disrupting your activities)? So, why are you dealing with them so unproductively?
Your responses to them do not concur with the BNP party line which makes me suspicious as to the real basis of your dislike for the UAF. Perhaps it IS because they are as bad as you folks and you cannot bear to see that so you resort to silly frenzied responses to their tactics?
With regard to FOS: I dont think we need to move onto the BNP commenters inconsistencies about freedom of speech (a pattern amongst most of you). Either you think people should have freedom of speech,...or you dont think they should. Get off the fence anonymous with all of this no platform rubbish. Either agree with the issue of platform or dont. Once you make up your mind, consider that others will react to you accordingly. Do you know nothing about the concept of reciprocity?
Anonymous 10:25 - where is your backbone?! You cant be challenged so you must align me to the UAF and hail for my platform to be taken away? Its pathetic. Go read the BNP site and inform yourself a little. That way you may not feel so insecure about my postings that you need to resort to silly insults and inaccurate accusation. Youre a disgrace to the BNP!
Louise
A genuine question for you.
If I go digging around in the Principia Discordia forums (a thorougly unpleasant experience, as I once learned the hard way), and in particular in "Operation Mindfuck" (GA, please leave that up, it really is the name of one of their forums, though it is now hidden because of my activities in exposing their organised trolls when GHB was getting it in the neck from them.), where they discuss ongoing and planned trolling operations ... will I find you and references to this site?
And Louise: if you are a member of that forum, 'HIMEOBOBS' doesn't exist. It's an insider joke.
Sir hm: Thank you for your post.
A genuine answer for you: I dont know what the website or forum is (and if you found it unpleasant, I am not interested in finding out coz if its rubbish or not intelligent, I doubt that I will be any more taken with it than you were). I usually follow up on some of GAs links out of respect but also to see what is goign on there but I always come back to this site because although I think it needs a lot of improvement, I can at least see which direction you lot are going in (despite disagreeing with the conclusions you tend to draw!).
My reason for leaving off personal details is two fold:
1. At first, it was because I was genuinely shit-scared that if I dared to come onto the site- then someone would track me down and give me a thoroughly good beating! Of course, the debates became more important to me than the risk of a beating. However, there are sites and non-internet sources with honest conviction histories of previous and current BNP members. BFB once denied this but his denial is futile given the evidence.
I do think that this is a serious issue though - principally in terms of the public perception of the BNP. I can only speak of my experience, like anyone else. Personally, all of my friends and most people that I speak to when I ask them about their thoughts on the BNP feel the same way. Of course, they are a biased sample. But, given that people I know and meet cut across all walks of life, all areas of the UK and all different religions, cultures etc - I am astounded to find that Im the only one with any real interest or the balls to visit this site. Granted you have your members and granted GA and others make a lot of claims about having popular support. How could I deny that you have some support (whether the BNP speaks for whole of the UK however is another issue though and not relevant here). So - honestly, I was scared. And no, I dont mind who comes on to take the piss out of that first reaction which is why I openly admit it. After a few weeks of GA's site, I think there are enough posts and comments to indicate that you folks are actually more scared of "them" (muslims etc) than I am of you!
2. After ridding myself of that fear, I quickly moved into my second thought regarding enquiries into my identity: I actually dont think its relevant to the debate as to who I am. I have always maintained a high level of personal intergrity. I make fuck-ups like everyone and I make no claims for perfection but I have a strong personal ethic and an enduring belief in the human's ability to act humanely. I do think that we are more than the sum of our parts and I am able to practise this belief in terms of my work and personal life. So, importantly, apart from telling you that Im a woman, Im British and that I live in the UK, I genuinely feel that all other details are irrelevant.
People may absolutely hate what I say (let them), but if I havent assigned myself to a 'cause' openly here, then I dont support it. Being accused of being a UAF member or being a lefty or a righty or lesbian or posh or common or stupid or educated or this or that tells me more about the commenter. I already know who I am, so the various veiled insults mean nothing to me. I have previously taken exception if they are too rude because a. it makes the commenter look insecure and b. it usually means there is no point to be made. Most people learn that as children. Moreover, I find so many other sites absolute rubbish (including those that want freedom of speech prevented). So if people want to try and align me to them, let them. The irony is that I hadnt even heard of the UAF site before GA pointed me there. I havent infiltrated anything and I dont need to belong to groups to justify what I do or dont believe in. So in conclusion, there appears to be no benefit in giving out my other personal details because the debates here can exist without them. Its me here. Apart from answering your question Sir hm, I dont care who believes that and I dont mind standing up alone to be counted (though I am sometimes suspicious as to whether GA does post opposing arguments freely on this site but that also is another issue).
So: BFB and the likes can align me to any group or adorn me with any characteristic in a desperate bid to provide me with some monstrous identity. OR.....he can stop faffing around and get on to address the serious issues of debate with some personal dignity. Disappointingly in some ways, all he will probably actually do is simply create another rhyme or another word that includes troll and I will have to be content with the limits of his imagination. Shame really but there you go.
Sir Hm: Thank you for your post. I can see your level of honesty in this and I cannot (and would not) deny your conscious experience of Islam (even though I differ from it to quite a remarkable magnitude). However, before doing so, I would like to question something, quite genuinely, about BNP membership that you raised.
I dont think that other commenters have been that honest in saying what you said about an awareness of the BNP reputation. Im not sure that we understand the same meaning of 'internally disciplined' but the need for such a disciplinary measure (whatever it involves) does lead me to question what you mean by it and why it is necessary to have such stringent measures. In addition to contracts from employerers, I have always been bound to codes of ethics and professional body guidelines in my line of work but never heavy internal disciplinary procedures or protocols - unless i were to make a real cock-up of something and then i would duely deserve everything that i got of course (but nothing in those codes is "heavy" from an internal point of view). My first reaction to this is that the party has some experience of 'loose cannons' (and unfortunately, the young Mr Collett's youtube postings add fuel to that idea as does Mr Griffin's requirements of a change of stance from anti-semitism to anti-islam positions.)
But secondarily, what do the threats or insults or assaults have to consist of before people get thrown out? And incidently, why arent there appeals? (surely there should be,..what about mitigating circumstance or wrong identification etc?). I sincerely hope that no one is going to question your posting today because its a brave one but do you see what im driving at here? In short, there were all sorts of insults flying around here over the last few weeks and the majority of them were coming from pro-BNP-ers and no one apparantly was questioning that? Even a direct representative johnoddybnp was incredibly insulting with his racist jokes (no matter how funny people think they are, they were impecably offensive to muslims and constituted harrasement and discrimination via international law). It doesnt matter that johnoddybnp was puppetered by his wife (who also should know better), because if he posted these things, with his name attached, but it certainly doesnt do anything for the BNP does it? I didnt go bleating on to anyone about it to put in formal complaints myself (though I was curious from a legal point of view so sought external confirmation out of interest) but all sorts of blogging codes, bnp recommendations and the law was broken several times over the last few weeks. And with regards to me personally, the insults were just becasue I wsa challenging the bnp position!
I can handle debate and I could easily handle you lot over the last few weeks because I did learn to keep my head when all about me were losing theirs and blaming it on me. And by goodness, Im trying to make some allowance for your doubting too! ;)
My point Sir Hm is that before we get onto our experiences of Islam (and I would like to follow up on a seperate stream with this), are the words you have written about the BNP membership actually true?
Our internal disciplinary procedures are no more or less than all other parties have.
What will get you dismissed from the BNP is stuff that is quite normal behaviour for eg the UAF. We would never even contemplate the behaviour seen recently at Oxford. It's not that we're any more inclined to such behaviour as anyone else, but we know that we must be - and there is no race connotation here - whiter than white. It puts us very much at a disadvantage in many situations. For example, recently the Barnsley BNP has twice been physically attacked when doing town centre paper sales. We are not permitted to even retaliate.
Come to that, when speaking in a debate we are not even permitted to use bad language.
We are like Ceasar's wife.
That's all the internal discipline is about - we know that if we are attacked and robustly defend ourselves, the press will be all over us like a rash - not the people that initiated the incident, but us!
As for such things as internal debate - there is no disciplinary procedure for disagreements, and the arguments get quite robust. Once the arguments are worked through, votes are taken. If you lose the vote there is a simple choice: toe the line set by the majority in the vote, or leave. This is no more than a simple party whip, if you like, no different from any other party. I have been a member of the Labour party and I can asure you there is far more robust debate than is found in the Labour party, and none of the bullying. That's my experience anyway. It's like any other political party, but because we are aware that there is an unfortunate public perception - now steadily reducing - of us, we have to be far more careful than all the other parties. That's all it is. Nothing sinister. You seem to see sinister in everything we say and do. Why? You must have learned in the time you've been here that we're just ordinary folk.
And as for jokes - every joke has a victim. I'm Welsh, and I'm an ex-serviceman. You can't imagine some of the jokes I've been on the receiving end of. Any other ex-servicemen here - like GA himself who enlisted at the same age I did - 15 - might be able to clue you in.
Have you been for a good root around Liar's Buggers and Thieves? Wont catch anyone in the BNP getting up to that sort of stuff. Not and keep their party membership. You'll note that very little of what's in there hits the msm ... but if it was a BNP member it'd be screaming headlines for weeks. You know I speak truth on that.
Just a quick word - not particularly well thought out - off the top of my head, if you like.
Sirhm: On Islam:
Yes, I have lived and worked in Islamic countries. I have also studied religions and the cultures both that I have lived in and of other people around the world that I have yet no experience with. I never try to claim 'expert' and dont make frequent claims of an authoritative position in terms of knowledge base if I can possibly help it in the real world. Principally because there are flaws in everyone's knowledge but here, Im not sure its flaws that are the issue (except maybe for Najistani who claims to have spent 15 minutes studying the koran so obviously takes a dangerous position).
I think that probably, its about experience. It may well be that I am extremely lucky in every case of meeting muslims and that so far, you and all bnp members have been extremely unlucky. Or it may be something to do with the way that we process information that we have about human beings in the context of our own national identities.
You list clear reasons to justify your feelings of horror towards muslims. Likewise, I have clear reasons to justify my feelings of acceptance towards muslims. Im not just quoting off websites or fantasing about experiences that ive never had, because like you, we have first hand experience. So, in a sense, this puts you and I on a level playing ground to discuss this (oddly enough).
So why do you think our discrepancies in viewpoints exist Sir hm?
With regards to knowledge, im not sure that islam has killed more people than ALL the groups you list (has it and can you do the most basic thing and site approximate numbers next to the groups you list?).
Of course, Im nobodies fool so Im not denying that some people who practice islam are responsible for deaths. But equally, im not denying that some people who practice christianity are also responsible for deaths. Thus, to play a numbers game in the current climate of our recent history is dangerous.
But, lets accept that you have more knowledge than i on the matter of numbers since you made the claim and will therefore find it easy to cite the numbers. If any group is killing in the name of religion, culture, identity or citizenship, ,does it make it okay? I have never said that any death caused by a muslim is acceptable. My bottom line has always been that violence is unacceptable. Thus, I do not have to single muslims out in the same way that you do since so many of the religions engage in atrocity on a daily basis.
And in the UK, I feel that politically speaking in terms of power and danger, the policies of the BNP party are far more problematic. I cant stand the current government but I worry more about the BNP being elected. And with regards to current situations, it bothers me more than women in the UK are the victims of domestic violence from those lovely white british men! Looking elsewhere to other religions where we have the majority of white, male, and predominately christian atrocities in our own back gardens is far more worrying! Thats why I think its damned hypocrisy to be battling on about what others are up to when we get it so wrong in this country!
Do you see what I mean Sir hm? Anyway, would be massively appreciative of those figures.
Sir hm:
This is where I am confused slightly. You say "it [BNP] is probably the most heavily internally disciplined party in the country" and you also suggest that its no different from any other party.
Is the BNP harsher in terms of internal discipline than other UK parties (or not)?
You are right, I do have a feeling that the BNP is sinister. That feeling goes beyond the extremely problematic beginnings of the party, and stems right through the essence of BNP migration and military related policies and even the definition of indigenous peoples (which is generously stretched away from the actual definition of indigenous and applied liberally to a non-indigenous migration of peoples in and out of the countries that make up the UK). There are so many incidences to inspire a shuddering reaction before we even get onto GA's website and the sheer amount of personalised insults that were utterly irrelevant to BNP debate that I experienced. And those were absolutely nothing in comparison to the insults against muslims, even if you do hate them and want them all stopped/gone/destroyed etc.
I certainly can see that your right to practice freedom of speech is violated. I dont like the BNP at all but I can tell you that I hugely disliked the stance taken to stop you speaking in Oxford too. In a sense, I want to hear what you have to say precisely so that I can challenge it and engage in freedom of thought and speech. Remember that you wre also being denied your right to peaceful assembly that day too. I felt the same way towards that dreadful man Irving in his denial of the full extent of the holacaust. I understand the principle of reciprocity but also understand that FOS extends beyond personal preference. So, yes, lets have a platform and lets hear each other.
Im not sure about the BNP having a squeaky clean approach. I think that Griffin 'claims' to be cleaning the party up but you cant make something thats so wrong look clean, no matter how hard you try. And THIS may be one reason as to why people have this internal discomfort with thinking about the BNP when you get mentioned mainstream. You do get a rough ride though, thats for sure. But why dont you think about the awareness week idea? I meant that seriously a few weeks ago!
"There are so many incidences to inspire a shuddering reaction before we even get onto GA's website and the sheer amount of personalised insults that were utterly irrelevant to BNP debate that I experienced"
You referred to Bnp members as idiotic in one of your posts you then went on to insult several commenters, would you like me to provide you with examples?You moan and whinge like a spoilt child,your air of superiority is nauseating and quite boring.You fail to answer any questions directed at you yet continue to enlighten us with your own brand of well rehearsed rhetoric.
You had never heard of the uaf yet your obsessed with Collett et al.
I could go on but i'm sure that most of the visitors to this site realise they're being fed a pig in a poke.
No platform:uaf=fascists in disguise.
Quite a interesting little thread Louise, you're quite right that no one deserves more info than you're willing to give.
I like GA's site because its informative and heartening to know others also dislike the spread of Islam, and the global links are good.
I was introduced to the Nationalist sites via my PTA group and was delighted to find that being "racist" as opposed to duped was actually quite a sensible thing to be.
I still dont think Britain is quite ready for the BNP though hope their voting base increases substantially so that they become serious contenders,( its the only way to ensure all those awfully sincere and inclusive politicians have a change of heart.)
We need a credible Opposition and sadly Cameron's Tories are not very good at opposing.
I'll be voting BNP for the forseeable future, keep the rest on their toes?
Cheaper than a pair of Purdeys..have you seen the price!
This is a very long post. Sorry. (no I'm bloody not!)
Ah Louise - knowledge of Islam does not come from the Koran alone. There is the Koran - which must be read in chronological rather than published order in order to glean a tiny bit of sense from it. But it must also be read in conjunction with the aHadith - the sayings and traditions of Mohammed - and both must be read in conjunction with the sira - the biography of Mohammed. Read a bit of biography, read a bit of what he ws saying and doing at that time, then read a bit of the Koran - repeat until you reach the end. Also learn things like the abrogation rules. If it doesn't appall you by then, then you're a lost cause.
In addition, study Islam's history. It's an awful story. There is not one Islamic state anywhere that didn't become Islamic by force, and amidst huge slaughter and enslavement. Hell, even Mecca itself was only made Islamic by military means. To understand Islam, it's more important to study the history than the holy books. I am a qualified though non-practising psychologist (I was very late going to - two - good universities): the best predictor of future behaviour in 95% of cases, is past behaviour. Islam's past behaviour is disgusting - as is it's present behaviour everywhere - repeat everywhere - it has power; and even in those places where it doesn't have power but just has a little strength in numbers.
Why should we take the chance? It's not as if we have to, so why should we?
You can't say much about Islam based on experience with individual Muslims. Individual Muslims are good and bad the same as anyone else. Just like individual Germans were in the 1930s/40sYou may say most Muslims are basically decent people - and I may, or may not, agree with you - and only a few are - let's use the word 'extreme' shall we? Ok. I can go along with that too even if huge numbers of Muslims living in Britain have expressed a preference for Sharia. How many Germans in the 1930s/40s were Nazis? How many of them stepped up to stop the Nazis doing the things they wanted to do? Islam's like that. Heard of Pastor Neimoller?
Our discrepancy of viewpoint may be based on the fact that my experience of Islam from the 70s and 80s is military (no, not for the British forces by then - on private contracts). Maybe I've seen more of what they're capable of than you? Also, you're a Western (I assume; though I suspect you might be known in another place as miss jellybean - but I'll stick with my assumption for now) female so your Muslims will have tried to be on best behaviour. Muslims are a little more careful with Westerners than they are with, e.g. Phillipinas or Sri Lankans.
Errr, yes, Islam has killed more than all in combination: something well in excess - by definition these things can only be estimates - of a quarter of a billion people. Repeat BILLION. For instance, Islam took something like 140 million (same caveat as earlier re estimates) slaves out of Africa - another million and a half from Europe, at least. The West took something in the order of 12 million slaves from Africa. 90% of the slaves take by the West survived and their descendants are alive today. 90% of those taken by Islam died either en route or because of brutal treatment. Why don't we see many descendants from those that survived? Because almost all males taken as slaves underwent total emasculation - complete tackle removal. Very few survive that. Also, the West didn't go into the African interior and hunt down its own slaves - it bought them already enslaved by ... other Africans, and ... Muslims. The Western Africa slave trade extended across about 300 years, then it was virtually brought to a halt worldwide, at an expense greater than the profits from slavery, by ... yes, we British. The Islamic slave trade started some 1350 years ago and continues to this day - though it is now much reduced and hidden where possible. I have personally known former slaves - I was in Oman in the 1970s - yes, war; it's what I do - well, did anyway - and in Oman slaves were only emancipated in 1970 when Qaboos became (put in place by, yes, we British, in a palace coup planned organised and carried out by British personnel) Sultan.
Slavery is something that has existed all over the world throughout human history. It is now the closest it has ever been to non-existent, and we British are responsible for that. You should be proud of our record on slavery. It's not perfect, but better than anyone else's.
Study Indian history. Islam killed something in the order of 80 million Hindus AFTER conquering. And as for enslavement, the numbers are uncountable. Do you know how the Hindu Kush got its name? Hindu means, well, Hindu. Kush means death. What we now call the Hindu Kush was the route back to Arabia from India for the slave caravans. So many Hindus died of brutal treatment en route that the Hindus named it Hindu Death - Hindu Kush. The slaughter in India was only brought to an end by the British Empire. We may have slaughtered a few of our own over the years, but we were such an improvement on the Mughals that it took very few British to rule India. The Hindus recognised a good thing when they saw it. As it happens my father in law had been an officer in the British Indian Army. No, he was an Asian. He loved England. And he hated Islam, far more than I could even begin to do, as did his daughter, my wife. That must tell you a thing or two.
What is now Afghanistan, and most of Pakistan, was once almost entirely Buddhist. Where it gained the power to do so, Islam exterminated Buddhism, one of the gentlest philosophies that ever existed. About 10-12 million people. There is no mercy in Islam for non-Muslims.
I don't know what your problem is with the prospect of the BNP becoming the government. I was married nearly a quarter-century to an Asian woman; my one and only child in this world is mixed-race. The BNP doesn't worry me.
Domestic violence from those wonderful white British men? I'm not denying it exists, but we censure it, and impose criminal penalties when it is exposed. Islam actually recommends it. Yet you're worried about us? Strange. Personally, I never once hit my wife, or even threatened to, just as I never once hit my daughter. The only domestic violence I have personal knowledge of is the thrashings my mother used to dish out to whichever of us was to hand when she felt in the mood - entirely at random. My father never laid a finger on any of us (I have two each brothers and sisters), and indeed, my mother only did it when he wasn't around. He never even knew about it. So my only experience of domestic violence is female on male. I'm afraid I just don't understand your fears. British men are not bad, on the whole.
Look, to believe anything I say about Islam you have to go find out for yourself. Find your own sources, read, cross-refer. Wont take long - a few months at most if you're a fast reader - and you're certainly not unintelligent.
Best to not throw too many things at people in one go though. One thing at a time.
Anyway, I've got to go for at least a while - got the latest Private Eye to read. There you go, a BNP supporter who's a fan of Private Eye. Don't stereotype individuals. It only works for groups. Incidentally, stereotyping is a perfectly natural and normal brain process. If your brain didn't stereotype you wouldn't be able to survive. The key is to know that it occurs, and so make allowance for it when it comes to dealing with individuals once you've passed the initial stereotype.
Anonymous 17:35. You are missing my point and diverting from the more serious conversation that Im trying to have with Sirhm (who is doing more for the cause of the BNP today than your comment I might add).
Yes, shock horror - I have made several comments to those who have posted insults yes - always in reaction too. You can count them up and assess the quality of them and spout them back to me again if you want to as well. However, you might want to saver your time as I already remember everything that I have said because I wrote the words in the first place (so thanks for pointing out the blindingly obvious!). The UAF are inconsequential to me because they arent mobilised as a political party in the same way as the BNP. Collet was once a key figure of the BNP. He is of central interest in terms of what he represents (especially as a relatively young person too).
You are right, most visitors will form their own judgements so either make your point or move on to write something more useful.
Anonymous 17:45 - I actually looked that picture up. It made me smile but alas, it aint me. Got any more sensible contributions though?
Kristina - are purdeys relevant?! The global links are horrendous on this site though the layout is very good and its infinately better than BFBs site. The links are one-sided and this inbalance is stark and worrying. Youre right about the BNP and their limited voting base but they will surely have to pull their socks up, get some serious policies in place and be able to deal with challenges before they are going anywhere. It must be dreadful to constantly struggle to own such rubbish policies and then to get all bent out of shape because people dare to question the validity of them!
i would like louise the troll to come forward and be honest -
tell us what your political leaning is, what party you support and why?
then perhaps we could have a two way discussion that may be worth reading rather than you just being a pointless boring troll. who will either be ignored or deleted as she passes the maximum boring threshhold.
Sir hm: At first glance, this looks like a detailed post but I want to take my time to read it properly before getting back to you which I will do later on tonight.
As you declare your background in psychology, you will surely understand that your comments about stereotyping and nit picking are somewhat contradictory in spirit given the human proclivity towards both. Surely, the term that you are looking for is the human activity to 'discriminate' (I mean this in the primary sense of the term, not the racist sense). I am slow in terms of linguistic and literacy ability (something that I dont mind about) so I read very slowly indeed. But that gives me plenty of time to think, pick apart, build up, debate and then form my own opinions from many directions at once. Extrapolation is the excellent outcome of dyslexia! Therefore, Im afraid that you will have to tolerate my style, just as I have had to tolerate yours. I dont want to apologise for it because it would be insincere of me and its a preference thing for you rather than a 'must' (im sure youre familiar with albert ellis) Besides, if your stance is watertight it will survive my nit picking attempts to understand it fully.
Bearing in mind our full and frank discussion earlier, im going to give you credit by ignoring the earlier digression to the jellybean identity guess-o-fest. Ive not been around this sort of thing before (the BNP debate) and I go by anon or my name louise on these postings when i feel secure enough to do so. I dont want to have to keep on repeating this because it makes you look silly for always asking and it will eventually lead the slow-to-catch on people here to hit an incorrect eureka "she doth protest too much" and thats always a dangerously stupid conclusion to draw!
so sir hm: see yous later mister!
To poster white haters (?):
I shall be honest with you:
I dont have a political leaning though I do have a humanitarian position that I take in my personal and professional life. Its always worked well for me and for the people that are around me generally both personal and community speaking (thats why).
There is one person in my party and thats me! I dont think that I am in any danger of any of you folks joining me but thats okay with me too.
My story hasnt changed precisely because its true.
What is a TROLL?
troll v.,n. To utter a posting designed to attract predictable
responses or "flames". Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies"; which
in turn comes from mainstream "trolling";, a style of fishing in which one
trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The well-constructed
troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves
look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the
more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll. If you
don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it.
A "troll" is not a grumpy monster that lives beneath a
bridge accosting passers-by, but rather a provocative posting to a newsgroup
intended to produce a large volume of frivolous responses. The content of a
"troll" posting generally falls into several areas. It may consist of an
apparently foolish contradiction of common knowledge, a deliberately
offensive insult to the readers of a newsgroup, or a broad request for
trivial follow-up postings.
There are three reasons why people troll newsgroups:
People post such messages to get attention, to disrupt newsgroups, and
simply to make trouble.
Career trollers tend for the latter two whilst the former is the mark of the
clueless newbie and should be ignored.
You're little. You see a dog for the first time. It's got four legs, a tail, hair, and big bloody teeth relative to size. It's coloured brown. You don't know what it is or how to behave towards it. Should you stay? Run? Kill? Turns out it's friendly.
Couple of days later you see another one. This too has four legs, hair big teeth, tail, but this one's a lot smaller and is black and white patches. What to do? stay, run? Kill? Turns out it bhaves exactly the same as the first one. Right, now your brain forms a stereotype. Certain characteristics make it a dog, others are incidental. You know longer need to keep asking yourselves questions - nitpicking, if you like - yes I know, not the best of examples, but take it or leave it - about it next time something fitting the stereotype comes along. You know what to expect, you know how to behave. Not frozen in indecision.
Stereotype of a troll? Well, I've had previous experience, but with you I wasn't sure. But you are fitting too many of the characteristics that are starting to scream Troll! at me. You're a clever one, that's for sure. But I think you are one. I took some serious time to check you out - those posts didn't take 30 seconds to write. But your responses scream troll. You don't WANT answers - you just want us to expend time answering your unanswerable questions whilst not yourself engaging in the discussion.
In other words, your not fulfilling your part of the conversational rules. You do understand that there are rules to conversation don't you? Unwritten, for sure, but rules nevertheless. If you behaved like this at a cocktail party you'd have long ago found yourself in a corner, all alone.
Sirhm: I think you are talking more about cognitive schemas and scripts rather than stereotypes per se. I totally agree with you about forming the mental representation and understanding based on the information but its the 'fixed' implication that bothers me (eg your alignment with the representations as being stereotypical in nature). In addition (though to a lesser extent), there is also the issue with 'perspective'. Yes, the stereotype by definition is widely held but what happens when information comes along that challenges the previous representation? For me, I hold lots of reasonably consistent representations, but I will gracefully flex (not erratically) my understanding and behaviour when other information comes to light. If evevryone else holds a stereotype and it fails to fit my representation, i never feel under pressure to adopt it just because they are. Im going to equate that to having the courage not to act like a sheep. If that gets me into trouble, so be it. It hasnt so far. I think that the only people who have acted hated me are your fellow commenters and thats okay with me.
But to challenge something you said: I am very happy to engage in discussion. In fact, today has been a relief because we have been doing just that. I have asked questions and I have answered questions. The same for you (though I would like to come back to your fuller post later on because it was a good one). I have also reserved teh right to ignore questions in some instances from people like BFB when he was rude/insulting based on my perfect right not to engage with idiocy. However, it is somewhat difficult for all of us to engage in a conversastion as we would if we were at a party though as you suggest. But steady sirhm, if you released your commentary about shagging women at a party full of ordinary folk and spoke to others in ways that you and your fellow bnp-ers have done so here to someone who challenged you, do you think it would go down well to all concerned (unless it was a party with everyone with the same belief set except the challenger of course!)? So, Im afraid that you must look to the mirror to querie yourself where that little nugget really comes from and deal with it in your own time.
As for the whole troll thing: Sirhm, can you tell me what that name thing is really about as far as this website but also for you in terms of your take on it (if possible because) it looks like an insider thing but Im not exactly sure what I am being accussed of. Then I can also engage in some thoughts about whether I do represent the troll phenomena! I might well be thinking its simply a name calling exercise but if theres more to it, I may well be whatever it is that a troll represents to you. (though does it make any difference in the grand scheme of things anyway?).
Louise,
Regarding needing to spend 15 minutes to understand the koran. I don't think such a waste of time is really necessary.
15 seconds is sufficient if you understand that "Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them" abrogates all earlier contradictory verses.
Sir H.M. You mentioned Muslim slaughter of Buddhists. The low level of Islamic awareness among Buddhists has been commented on by Dalton lad at http://cumbrianpatriotbnp.blogspot.com/2007/12/priest-prophet-politician-holy-trinity.html .
This is something that puzzles me. Despite the recent destruction of the Buddhas of Bamiyan and the terrorist attacks in Thailand, there are, to my knowledge, no Islamically Aware Buddhists blogs though there are loads of Christian, Jewish, Hindu and Pagan ones.
I think it's time for me to dig up information about persecution of Buddhists then go round the Buddhist blogosphere and spread a little enlightenment.
If we Kuffars don't hang together then we'll all hang separately.
Q: What is the sound of one hand clapping?
A: BOOM!!! - as it hits the detonator.
Sir hm: I thank you for your measured response. It seems that we have remarkably different experiences of Islam and of being in countries led by Islamic law. I agree with you regarding the necessity to engage with depth and variation of reading sources, including history and every other factor (such as geography, politics, policy, economics and so on). There is no room for ignorance concerning these subjects. Yes, I admire the courage of Pastor Martin Niemollar. I wonder what his viewpoints on the origins of the National Front and its transformation to the BNP or what he would think of the migration policies of the BNP? As you say, history is important.
However, looking over your sources, you continue to omit ‘balance’ from your argument. Whilst you raise incredibly valid points concerning violence and destruction, you also seem to ignore that Muslims have not operated in a vacuum. I will not make excuses for violence and you are correct, the actions of people in the name of religion are unforgivably harmful.
I have tried to avoid engaging in the numbers game (but I fully appreciate that you did cite numbers so that I could gauge your knowledge base more than anything else). My reasons for this are: 1. my bottom line is to reject justifications for violence regardless of numbers and 2. If people develop sliding scales with cut-off points, they will always be the types of people who justify their own destruction and refuse to understand it in the context of others’ destructions.
Thus, I am certainly not seeking to justify the history of violence under Islam (having agreed with you that NOT all Muslims are violent and furthermore, that MOST Muslims are not violent!). However, the balance is still missing from your arguments SirHm. What you were actually doing in Islamic countries is not my business.
But, regardless of this, the West, especially the UK and the USA has blood all over their hands regarding its influence in the political, ethnic and religious demographic make-up and current conflict that is going on all over the world, but particularly in the Middle East and Asia. Worse, our involvement has involved both Christianity and politics. Ask Mr Bush about the basis of his allegedly personal conversation with God in justifying an attack on the Iraqis. More appropriately, however, the UK and the USA have been involved in orchestrating the actions of Muslims to our benefit as well as to their detriment. I am sure that you are well rehearsed in Operation Cyclone, the UK Government support of arms export and military assistance to Indonesian (predominately Muslim in religious demographic) or ITEC training (attended by Saudi Arabia and Turkey) and supported again by the UK government.
So yes, we can both talk about Islam, but lets not forget that the legacy of a history is in the eye of the beholder. Simply telling me that they did more harm tells me nothing about our relative part in that harm or the context of the harm or the actions that we took in causing harm ourselves. Nor does it tell me anything positive at all about the Muslim faith. You only focus on the negatives with Islam. What about the positives for the non-extreme majority of Muslims? Anyone can look to extreme groups, assume that all fit into that mould, and then go about seeking their destruction. Apparently, many of the commenters welcome the end of Islam and therefore Muslims but don’t understand that this stance constitutes an extreme and fundamental belief in itself!
Your points Sirhm are well made but they lack any consideration of the issues above. Moreover, your arguments make no provision for other ethnic minorities that exist in the UK who do not fit your image of Islam. Are you more tolerant of their human rights and their right to live in the UK?
And this really leads me to question the policies of the BNP. The controlling aspect relating to migration and the voluntary resettlement program is worrying. What ends will the BNP go to, to carry out its policies? What will happen to children from ethnic minority and “mixed” backgrounds or to people who do not reach the mythical definition of being an indigenous person? Not everyone wants to be ‘paid off’ to leave you know! The extreme and fundamental positions that the BNP takes don’t seem any different to the other extreme and fundamental positions of previous dictatorships (left and right). Whilst I really appreciate your time, your argument is not convincing at all given the flaws pointed out above. Likewise, I’m not holding my breath that you will agree with anything that I am saying either and yes, that is worrying for both of us I’m sure!
Ah Dear Sirhm: to top it all, I am away again from tomorrow until next week. No laptops where I’m off to either (ak!). This will provide a wonderful opportunity for BFB but I will certainly miss our conversation conclusion of today. Masaa al-khair.
GA Since that troll turned up you comments section is now way too bloated with crap!
Can you moderate her away as i dont wish to read through her nonsense trolling anymore when trying to find something worth reading.
i know she is your pet troll but i dont think you should be feeding her. you are driving guenuine posters away who wish to discuss the topics of the day, not read a bunch of claptrap from the trolls.
Anonymous 07:15
GA promotes freedom of speech. why are you denying it?
I will try to shorten the posts GA. I didnt want to be rude to SirHm who sent such a serious and excellently detailed post. These issues deserve discussion.
GA: Perhaps you can increase the size of the column width so that lengthy comments are drastically reduced and make scrolling easier.
Likewise readers: GA already makes your reading easier if you want to skip over my comments. If you click on the title of a GA posting (right hand side of the page), your web page refreshes and you can see all comments easily and skip over them that way.
Anon 07:15
Is correct. Click on the post title and you can scroll through the comments.
I am not sure I understand about the width of the comments column. I am able to adjust the width of the comments window by dragging the bottom right corner.
It is free speech for all or free speech for none.
I will try to go through and delete comments of chaff after awhile so that the people who follow can read the debates.
I will try not to delete too much but I am sure I will sometimes delete relevant comments. This will not be deliberate and will never be personal.
TROLL,
CONGRATULATIONS, you are now conTROLLing the threads! I thought BNPers were more savvy than to allow that to happen. GA has already deleted several of my responses to you and I fail to see how that can be accidental.
Well done, TROLL. Carry on like this and you'll soon control the entire blog!
Hi BFB.
I have only been deleting comments that do not add to the debate.
Personally I wish people would ignore the Troll. Yes I know it is fun to wind her up and watch her spin but if she were just left alone she would wither and die. Do not feed her ego.
I clean up once or twice a week and so all comments no matter of what flavor(unless obscene)should at least be up for a few days.
It is just house cleaning and not censorship.
BFB: Yikes, sorry! I'll keep 'em shorter though you should thank your lucky stars that I bothered with you at all after your pathetic name-calling behaviour in the last few weeks! I guess I just cannot resist a racist -no matter how infantile s/he may be.
GA: Please feel free to remove my comments from previous weeks if theyre clogging up the threads etc.
Obviously its refreshing to engage in freedom of speech but once the comment is taken-over by the fresh ones, theres probably no reason to have mine up if it risks clogging up your system. I always pay attention to what I write so it wouldnt make me feel insecure if you whipped 'em off after the fresh ones.
I always pay attention to what I write
Good tactic .
Anonymous 17:14.
Yes, apparantly its a better tactic than failing to understand the point of my sentence. This suggestion is to make it easier for GA to get rid of the clogging. Why dont you help him out further by 1. getting the point and 2. getting to the point? So, what is your point?
screw this comments section its full of trollshit.
GreenArrow you need to run a tighter ship!
But you`re not
1. getting the point
2. getting the point
3. removing the troll
You just lost a blog viewer.
Come-on lads you cannot blame GA for who and who doesn’t post on here, he picks a topic and we banter. If someone comes along with a, legitimate, question or argument then one of us would be more than happy to indulge them, that is our choice. I, too, have been reeled-in by Louise but I’ve learnt my lesson and now choose to ignore her, once again. Our choice. GA runs, what I consider to be, one of the best Nationalist sites and it would only be in the interest of UAF if we all started to fall-out over an insignificant nothing like Louise.
We don’t help ourselves by going under the name “annon”, I’m sure that there can be some way in which our “credentials” can be verified, if only by GA before we’re allowed to post, but that’s only a suggestion.
As far as some “annon” stating “You’ve lost a blogger” so be it, GA, myself and all the other regulars don’t know who you are, you may well be a Troll trying to cause unrest amongst the rest of us so “Good-bye”.
GA does a great job so cut him some slack fellas!!!!!!!!
Hi John. Salute.
Thanks for the kind words. With regards to the trolls. They are water of a ducks back.
If people wish to indulge them then they may.
If people choose to leave they may. There are a lot more sites out there that in my opinion a 1000 times better and more informative then mine and blogs go in and out of flavour. It is good for people to wander. They learn more. I also hope if they find something they come back and tell us.
But you know John how easy it is to setup a Blogger ID. Simple, even for us ex-servicemen:) and life would be easier for all.
But if people feel happier posting anonymous they we must continue to let them enjoy it.
You should drop in on the Aberdeen site. Their organiser is also an ex-serviceman and one of our finest in my opinion.
Good Luck
Johnoddybnp: Well it seems that we are beginning to agree on something (re being in this odd position of both of us supporting GA). However, I would question the basis of your now ignoring me. I think it might be because you got your metaphorical backside kicked up and down this blog last week and now you dont have the courage to come back and say anything decent. You failed miserably in your election and you can see the remarkable difference that sandwell achieved. Perhaps had you stopped listening to your wifes racist crap-o-joke suggestions and not lied to people by telling them that you werent 'extreme' in your opinions then you would have got more support! You may have thought your little jape about scrotums to have been funny haha or letting off steam but I think that we have just established that there was a sincere lacking in scrotal ability in your postings or ability to deal with my questions of your policies. I actually think in all seriousness that the BNP could do a lot more both for its image and in terms of its presentation to recruit more support. But when I tried to find out more, I got you, the most senior to date and you were appalling! Maybe you should give it up to Sirhm and GA who could probably do an infinately better job!
Louise, (I presume)
With regards to my last posting I shall answer you with caution.
There are two things I was taught as a kid and it’s held me in good stead up to now. Never be called a liar or a thief for you should be neither.
The one thing I hold close, more than life itself, is the love of my wife, she is someone I would kill or die for and when a person hiding behind the mask of anonymity insults her I treat them as the reptilian coward that they so obviously are. I’m big and stupid enough to look after myself and I’ll stand my corner in a fight, an argument or in a simple conversation. I’m polite and courteous until given reason not to be but I wont have anyone piss up my back and tell me it’s raining.
As far as my election was concerned it could have gone better, I agree, but you’re missing the point of the BNP policies, as you well know the party are not allowed “open” meetings and are subject to verbal and physical abuse from your beloved UAF, with some research you would know that my election manager and myself were subject to such an attack, the only way the BNP gets noticed is by standing in elections we know we are not going to win but at least it gives us the opportunity to show the electorate we are not the knuckle dragging racists that we are made out to be and that is why we do what we do. We do all that because we believe in our Country and if that’s wrong in your eyes then so be it but don’t you come on this site deriding these people because they have a cause that doesn’t run parallel to yours. There is not a man or woman in the BNP who doesn’t have their Country at heart.
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